How do we show the display variable refresh rate in real time on iOS screens?

[Andy Burnelli]

nospam wrote:

"note that apple's display is a *variable* refresh rate that ranges from
1hz to 120hz to adapt to the content currently being displayed. much of
the time, it's less than 30hz because the content doesn't need anything
faster. this also conserves power, versus competing devices that are
always at maximum speed."

I turned on the Android switch to show the refresh rate in real time:
<https://i.postimg.cc/59zcmYFd/devopt07.jpg> Show Refresh Rate = on

How do we show that variable refresh rate in real time on iOS devices?

[Alan]

Why would I care to do that?

[Nil]

On 8 Mar 2023, Andy Burnelli <nos...@nospam.net> wrote in
misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.ipad,comp.sys.mac.advocacy:

You can't.

[Ken Hart]

On 3/9/2023 2:31 AM, Nil wrote:

>> nospam wrote:
>>
>> "note that apple's display is a *variable* refresh rate that ranges from
>> 1hz to 120hz to adapt to the content currently being displayed. much of
>> the time, it's less than 30hz because the content doesn't need anything
>> faster. this also conserves power, versus competing devices that are
>> always at maximum speed."
>>
>> I turned on the Android switch to show the refresh rate in real time:
>> <https://i.postimg.cc/59zcmYFd/devopt07.jpg> Show Refresh Rate = on
>>
>> How do we show that variable refresh rate in real time on iOS devices?
>
> You can't.

You're answering the question all wrong for this kind of newsgroup.

The correct answer is never "you can't" but "not needed & nobody wants it."

Silly Google puts it in all their settings just to clutter up the user
interface, which is why an iPhone UI is so uncluttered and simple to use.
--
Ken Hart
kwh...@frontier.com

[nospam]

In article <tucu9c$ta1h$1...@paganini.bofh.team>, Ken Hart

<kwh...@frontier.com> wrote:



> Silly Google puts it in all their settings just to clutter up the user
> interface, which is why an iPhone UI is so uncluttered and simple to use.

what possible benefit is there for an end user to know the
instantaneous refresh rate of the display, as it constantly changes
based on the currently content, as well as various other factors
(finger motion, power management, thermals, etc.)?

app developers can determine the refresh rate for timing app animations
if needed.

<https://developer.apple.com/documentation/quartzcore/cadisplaylink>
The duration property provides the amount of time between frames at
the maximumFramesPerSecond. To calculate the actual frame duration,
use targetTimestamp - timestamp. You can use this value in your app
to calculate the frame rate of the display, the approximate time the
system displays the next frame, and to adjust the drawing behavior so
that the next frame is ready in time to display.

a very bored app developer could write an app that queried and
displayed that value, although that won't actually be of much use for
one very obvious reason (which i doubt the usual suspects will figure
out).

[Alan]

My car varies the time the fuel injectors are open during each
combustion cycle.

How can I show that time?

[sms]

There have only been a handful of Android devices that have been able to
go down to 1Hz, and I doubt of they include the ability to view the
refresh rate. You need the Samsung LTPO display to be able to do this,
and it is the display in the 13.

nospam is wrong of course™ when he states "versus competing devices that
are always at maximum speed" since there are many other devices that
change the display rate to save power. There have been a lot of phones
that automatically switch the refresh rate between several preset values
(30, 60, 120, and in some cases 144 Hz). Only a few Android devices can
go down to 1Hz like the 13 Pro and 14 Pro.

[nospam]

In article <tud2kk$1hfdu$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> there are many other devices that
> change the display rate to save power.

manually, yes.

> There have been a lot of phones
> that automatically switch the refresh rate between several preset values
> (30, 60, 120, and in some cases 144 Hz).

not a lot.

apple pioneered the ltpo display technology needed for a variable
refresh rate display, first seen with the series 4 apple watch. since
then, only a handful of android phones use it.

> Only a few Android devices can
> go down to 1Hz like the 13 Pro and 14 Pro.

10 hz for the iphone 13 pro, 1 hz for the iphone 14 pro.

[Jolly Roger]

Because only REAL cars show the fuel injector throttle time in real
time! Other cars are for simpleton idiots who don't know anything about
driving. ; )

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[Bob Campbell]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>
> what possible benefit is there for an end user to know the
> instantaneous refresh rate of the display, as it constantly changes
> based on the currently content, as well as various other factors
> (finger motion, power management, thermals, etc.)?

None, of course. It’s only important to Kiddie Trolls because it’s
“something you can do on Android but not on iOS”.

As if.

What the Kiddie Trolls fail to understand is that iPhones are not aimed at
computer geeks. Nor are iPads. Actually the Kiddie Trolls fail to
understand LOTS of things. But I digress.

iPhones/iPads etc. appeal to non-geeks and non-nerds precisely because all
the gory details are hidden. You turn it on and It Works. That’s it.

Since 8 of the top 10 selling phones last year were iPhones, I would say
that Apple is on the right track with this.

>
> a very bored app developer could write an app that queried and
> displayed that value, although that won't actually be of much use for
> one very obvious reason (which i doubt the usual suspects will figure
> out).

Since I am not a clueless Kiddie Troll - and have 40 years of programming
experience in multiple languages - yes the reason is obvious. The very
act of displaying this info, say in a tachometer-style round gauge with a
needle moving around showing the refresh rate - is going to affect the
refresh rate.

But hey, Kiddie Trolls. Feel free to add this to The List. This is yet
another “No one has asked for that. If there was ANY demand there would
be multiple apps for it”.

This is also Very Obvious. Predictably, the Kiddie Trolls
don’t/won’t/can’t understand this.

Trolls gotta troll. 🙄

[Alan]

On 2023-03-09 09:41, Bob Campbell wrote:
> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>>
>> what possible benefit is there for an end user to know the
>> instantaneous refresh rate of the display, as it constantly changes
>> based on the currently content, as well as various other factors
>> (finger motion, power management, thermals, etc.)?
>
> None, of course. It’s only important to Kiddie Trolls because it’s
> “something you can do on Android but not on iOS”.
>
> As if.
>
> What the Kiddie Trolls fail to understand is that iPhones are not aimed at
> computer geeks. Nor are iPads. Actually the Kiddie Trolls fail to
> understand LOTS of things. But I digress.
>
> iPhones/iPads etc. appeal to non-geeks and non-nerds precisely because all
> the gory details are hidden. You turn it on and It Works. That’s it.

Exactly.

iPhones sell well, because they just work.

[nospam]

In article <CyCdnbFVmcWyh5f5...@supernews.com>, Bob

Campbell <no...@none.none> wrote:

> >
> > what possible benefit is there for an end user to know the
> > instantaneous refresh rate of the display, as it constantly changes
> > based on the currently content, as well as various other factors
> > (finger motion, power management, thermals, etc.)?
>

> None, of course. Itąs only important to Kiddie Trolls because itąs
> łsomething you can do on Android but not on iOS˛.

>
> As if.
>
> What the Kiddie Trolls fail to understand is that iPhones are not aimed at
> computer geeks. Nor are iPads. Actually the Kiddie Trolls fail to
> understand LOTS of things. But I digress.
>
> iPhones/iPads etc. appeal to non-geeks and non-nerds precisely because all

> the gory details are hidden. You turn it on and It Works. Thatąs it.

>
> Since 8 of the top 10 selling phones last year were iPhones, I would say
> that Apple is on the right track with this.

if only they had real-time readout of the refresh rate, they would have
had all 10!

> > a very bored app developer could write an app that queried and
> > displayed that value, although that won't actually be of much use for
> > one very obvious reason (which i doubt the usual suspects will figure
> > out).
>
> Since I am not a clueless Kiddie Troll - and have 40 years of programming
> experience in multiple languages - yes the reason is obvious. The very
> act of displaying this info, say in a tachometer-style round gauge with a
> needle moving around showing the refresh rate - is going to affect the
> refresh rate.

good guess. but actually that's not why :)

[Jolly Roger]

On 2023-03-09, Bob Campbell <no...@none.none> wrote:
> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> what possible benefit is there for an end user to know the
>> instantaneous refresh rate of the display, as it constantly changes
>> based on the currently content, as well as various other factors
>> (finger motion, power management, thermals, etc.)?
>
> None, of course. It’s only important to Kiddie Trolls because it’s
> “something you can do on Android but not on iOS”.
>
> As if.
>
> What the Kiddie Trolls fail to understand is that iPhones are not
> aimed at computer geeks. Nor are iPads. Actually the Kiddie Trolls
> fail to understand LOTS of things. But I digress.
>
> iPhones/iPads etc. appeal to non-geeks and non-nerds precisely because
> all the gory details are hidden. You turn it on and It Works. That’s
> it.
>
> Since 8 of the top 10 selling phones last year were iPhones, I would
> say that Apple is on the right track with this.

They also fail to understand that Apple's products appeal to people who
*are* technically proficient for the exact same reason - many
professionals want a product that they *don't* have to hack and fiddle
with just to get shit done, because they do enough of that at work, and
just want their device to stay out of their way at the end of the day.

>> a very bored app developer could write an app that queried and
>> displayed that value, although that won't actually be of much use for
>> one very obvious reason (which i doubt the usual suspects will figure
>> out).
>
> Since I am not a clueless Kiddie Troll - and have 40 years of
> programming experience in multiple languages - yes the reason is
> obvious. The very act of displaying this info, say in a
> tachometer-style round gauge with a needle moving around showing the
> refresh rate - is going to affect the refresh rate.
>
> But hey, Kiddie Trolls. Feel free to add this to The List. This is
> yet another “No one has asked for that. If there was ANY demand
> there would be multiple apps for it”.
>
> This is also Very Obvious. Predictably, the Kiddie Trolls
> don’t/won’t/can’t understand this.
>
> Trolls gotta troll. 🙄

They literally spend many hours every single day trolling here. A
significant portion of their lives is spent hatefully trolling and
belittling complete strangers. What a pitiful existence.

[Alan]

On 2023-03-09 10:12, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2023-03-09, Bob Campbell <no...@none.none> wrote:
>> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> what possible benefit is there for an end user to know the
>>> instantaneous refresh rate of the display, as it constantly changes
>>> based on the currently content, as well as various other factors
>>> (finger motion, power management, thermals, etc.)?
>>
>> None, of course. It’s only important to Kiddie Trolls because it’s
>> “something you can do on Android but not on iOS”.
>>
>> As if.
>>
>> What the Kiddie Trolls fail to understand is that iPhones are not
>> aimed at computer geeks. Nor are iPads. Actually the Kiddie Trolls
>> fail to understand LOTS of things. But I digress.
>>
>> iPhones/iPads etc. appeal to non-geeks and non-nerds precisely because
>> all the gory details are hidden. You turn it on and It Works. That’s
>> it.
>>
>> Since 8 of the top 10 selling phones last year were iPhones, I would
>> say that Apple is on the right track with this.
>
> They also fail to understand that Apple's products appeal to people who
> *are* technically proficient for the exact same reason - many
> professionals want a product that they *don't* have to hack and fiddle
> with just to get shit done, because they do enough of that at work, and
> just want their device to stay out of their way at the end of the day.

This.

[Alan Browne]

On 2023-03-09 10:34, Ken Hart wrote:

> The correct answer is never "you can't" but "not needed & nobody wants it."
>
> Silly Google puts it in all their settings just to clutter up the user
> interface, which is why an iPhone UI is so uncluttered and simple to use.

I occasionally watch YouTube videos about processing power / graphic
processing power. One metric that is used is FPS of the GPU (not screen
refresh per se).

ie: how often the CPU and GPU manage to do a complete frame re-fresh.

This is usually presented in the context of gaming but sometimes in the
context of video processing (editing).

Faster is of course better (this also branches out into overclocking,
advanced cooling schemes, etc.)

So there is possibly a connection to gaming on Android phones - but I
really don't know. And again - there - frame rates are performance
related, not screen refresh.

So why didn't I go delve into it further?

Exactly.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

[Alan Browne]

On 2023-03-09 13:12, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2023-03-09, Bob Campbell <no...@none.none> wrote:

>> Since 8 of the top 10 selling phones last year were iPhones, I would
>> say that Apple is on the right track with this.
>
> They also fail to understand that Apple's products appeal to people who
> *are* technically proficient for the exact same reason - many
> professionals want a product that they *don't* have to hack and fiddle
> with just to get shit done, because they do enough of that at work, and
> just want their device to stay out of their way at the end of the day.

As I've mentioned in the past, the only important computers I have are
the one at home and the ones at work. These are the assets that "do
work" and need to be perforamant[1], reliable, measurable (within
reason), backed up and backed up and backed up.

Phones, iPads, Watch, AppleTV ... are appliances. Get them to do the
needed tasks and the rest is clutter.

[1] If that's a word.

[Alan]

On 2023-03-09 10:59, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2023-03-09 13:12, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> On 2023-03-09, Bob Campbell <no...@none.none> wrote:
>
>>> Since 8 of the top 10 selling phones last year were iPhones, I would
>>> say that Apple is on the right track with this.
>>
>> They also fail to understand that Apple's products appeal to people who
>> *are* technically proficient for the exact same reason - many
>> professionals want a product that they *don't* have to hack and fiddle
>> with just to get shit done, because they do enough of that at work, and
>> just want their device to stay out of their way at the end of the day.
>
> As I've mentioned in the past, the only important computers I have are
> the one at home and the ones at work.  These are the assets that "do
> work" and need to be perforamant[1], reliable, measurable (within
> reason), backed up and backed up and backed up.
>
> Phones, iPads, Watch, AppleTV ... are appliances.  Get them to do the
> needed tasks and the rest is clutter.
>
> [1] If that's a word.

I think you misspelled it...

...but:

performant | pəˈfɔːmənt |

adjective mainly Computing

functioning well or as expected: a highly performant database which is
easy to use.

[Alan Browne]

Ah! that's why the spell checker underlined it! Not sure why I spelled
it that way...

[Alan Browne]

On 2023-03-09 12:41, Bob Campbell wrote:

> Since 8 of the top 10 selling phones last year were iPhones, I would say
> that Apple is on the right track with this.

Not a great metric. Referencing the recent list posted on the subject,
there are so many brands and models of Android that their individual
shares prevent many Android phones from being standouts in the top 10.
It's actually surprising that any make it to the list at all.

Yet phones like the Galaxy 23 Ultra are in the same league as top
iPhones - and in some respects better.

[RJH]

On 9 Mar 2023 at 8:30:37 AM, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> what possible benefit is there for an end user to know the
> instantaneous refresh rate of the display, as it constantly changes
> based on the currently content, as well as various other factors
> (finger motion, power management, thermals, etc.)?

What possible benefit is there for a vehicle driver to have a speedometer?
The speed readout is constantly changing based on current driver actions.
--
Cheers, Rob

[Alan]

On 2023-03-09 12:42, RJH wrote:
> On 9 Mar 2023 at 8:30:37 AM, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> what possible benefit is there for an end user to know the
>> instantaneous refresh rate of the display, as it constantly changes
>> based on the currently content, as well as various other factors
>> (finger motion, power management, thermals, etc.)?
>
> What possible benefit is there for a vehicle driver to have a speedometer?

Hmmmmm...

Safety?

Knowledge of what speed will get you pulled over?

> The speed readout is constantly changing based on current driver actions.

Now your turn. Answer his question.

[Alan Browne]

On 2023-03-09 15:42, RJH wrote:
> On 9 Mar 2023 at 8:30:37 AM, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> what possible benefit is there for an end user to know the
>> instantaneous refresh rate of the display, as it constantly changes
>> based on the currently content, as well as various other factors
>> (finger motion, power management, thermals, etc.)?
>
> What possible benefit is there for a vehicle driver to have a speedometer?

Yeah, sort of a good thing to have when operating a car. Heck - most
jurisdictions even require it.

> The speed readout is constantly changing based on current driver actions.

Can you explain how having the screen refresh rate helps operate a
mobile phone better?

[Hank Rogers]

Hahahahaha. Indeed. Speedometers are not needed, and nobody wants them.

I've been wondering about outside yard thermometers too. Why are
they still being made? Hell, you can't do anything about bitter
cold or withering heat.

[Alan Browne]

"Everybody talks about the weather but nobody does anything about it."
-Samuel Clemens

[Hank Rogers]

How do you guys feel about computer utilities that display your
computer's parameters? They display a lot of shit you can't do
anything about. It's just an information thing. A newspaper also
gives you information about things you can't change, or use for any
purpose than knowing it.

I know, I know ... *Not needed and nobody wants it*

[RJH]

On 9 Mar 2023 at 9:07:09 PM, Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:

>> The speed readout is constantly changing based on current driver actions.
>
> Can you explain how having the screen refresh rate helps operate a
> mobile phone better?

You may as well ask why gamers bother to display their fps & temperature.

Some people are technically competent.
Many others are not.

Kids are technically competent when it comes to gaming performance metrics.
Most non-kids are not.

You appear to be a non kid non gamer.
So am I.

Your question shows either you're not a gamer.
Or you don't understand what stresses a system.

Have you never noticed gaming PCs with the FPS displayed on the screen?
It's constantly changing - and that's exactly why gamers HUD the FPS.

Technically competent gamers want to know FPS information in real time.
Look up MSI Afterburner for just one of many examples of related tools.

They even have temperature displayed constantly as they stress graphics.
https://www.msi.com/Landing/afterburner/graphics-cards

That's likely why Google has that option in every Android phone.
Just like General Motors put a speedometer into every car they sold.
--
Cheers, Rob

[nospam]

In article <tudj66$1k7ta$1...@dont-email.me>, RJH <patch...@gmx.com>
wrote:

> You may as well ask why gamers bother to display their fps & temperature.

an ios game can easily display its frame rate.

[nospam]

In article <2UrOL.1482023$iU59.1...@fx14.iad>, Alan Browne

<bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:

>
> Can you explain how having the screen refresh rate helps operate a
> mobile phone better?

i'm glad you asked.

the faster the refresh rate, the faster a call can be connected.

knowing that value prior to initiating a call can be the difference
between having a lively and productive conversation versus ending up
leaving voicemail.

[Alan]

I can point out lots of times when I need to use various information
about a lot of things.

You've been asked to show a SINGLE use for knowing your phones refresh rate.

[Alan Browne]

On 2023-03-09 16:31, RJH wrote:
> On 9 Mar 2023 at 9:07:09 PM, Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>>> The speed readout is constantly changing based on current driver actions.
>>
>> Can you explain how having the screen refresh rate helps operate a
>> mobile phone better?
>
> You may as well ask why gamers bother to display their fps & temperature.
>
> Some people are technically competent.
> Many others are not.
>
> Kids are technically competent when it comes to gaming performance metrics.
> Most non-kids are not.
>
> You appear to be a non kid non gamer.
> So am I.
>
> Your question shows either you're not a gamer.
> Or you don't understand what stresses a system.
>
> Have you never noticed gaming PCs with the FPS displayed on the screen?
> It's constantly changing - and that's exactly why gamers HUD the FPS.

Yes - I pointed that out earlier today and that it's a potential reason
for having it on an Android phone. Emphasize "potential".

And of course as do understand these systems it's germane to point out
that "screen" refresh rate is not the FPS you're referring to (that is
frame rate computation, a measure of GPU/CPU ability to generate the
scene as it evolves).

The screen refresh rate referred to for these smartphones is a hardware
function that the OS controls according to need in order to save energy
- the antitheses of what "gamers" do which often involves a lot of Watts
to the point of needing liquid cooling of the CPU (and GPU?).

As to what "stresses" a system, years and years and years of real time
computer programming, often getting more than what seems reasonable out
of CPU's, I'm very aware of what "stresses" a system (though: from a
design standpoint, good real time systems are designed in both hardware
and software to have pretty good margins to account for unknowns, design
changes, new functions/features, and lifecycle maintenance and so on).

[Andy Burnelli]

Jolly Roger wrote:

>> My car varies the time the fuel injectors are open during each
>> combustion cycle.
>>
>> How can I show that time?
>
> Because only REAL cars show the fuel injector throttle time in real
> time! Other cars are for simpleton idiots who don't know anything about
> driving. ; )

To the actual _adults_ on this newsgroup (& for the permanent record),

1. These two iKooks, Alan Baker & Jolly Roger are uneducated.
2. They also own completely imaginary belief systems.
3. Worse, they _think_ they know what they are talking about.

HINT: They don't. They're clueless.

FACT:
I own both a bimmer & a beemer and we use tools to tell us all the gory
details about our vehicles because we want to UNDERSTAND how to debug.

I have them all just like on Android I have debugging tools, and my point
is that the average iPhone owner has almost no technical skills at all.

In fact, Jolly Roger & Alan Baker are average iPhone owners.
They own almost no comprehension of what it takes to debug a device.

HINT: Every competent bimmer & beemer owner owns the BMW tools (many are in
German) such as INPA, EDIABAS, NCSExpert, NCS Dummies, DIS/GT1, EasyDIS, &
Progman for the purpose of debugging, changing settings, & programming.

Back to the topic, the iPhone has always been designed for clueless people.

So it makes sense Apple would never provide anything useful for debugging
to iPhone owners (e.g., graphical Wi-Fi debugging tools) or, in this case,
frame rate debugging tools.

The iPhone owner is, as Jolly Roger & Alan Baker show, utterly clueless.
Yet, to Apple's credit, the iPhone sells well to stupid clueless people.

That's because most people are stupid.
--
You can't make those ungodly profit margins off of an intelligent customer.

[Alan Browne]

Ah. That explains issues I have with a client of mine. Talks so fast I
can't keep up.

So - do I ask him to reduce his screen frame rate, or do I increase mine?

[Alan]

On 2023-03-09 13:47, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> Jolly Roger wrote:
>
>>> My car varies the time the fuel injectors are open during each
>>> combustion cycle.
>>>
>>> How can I show that time?
>>
>> Because only REAL cars show the fuel injector throttle time in real
>> time! Other cars are for simpleton idiots who don't know anything about
>> driving. ; )
>
> To the actual _adults_ on this newsgroup (& for the permanent record),
>
> 1. These two iKooks, Alan Baker & Jolly Roger are uneducated.
> 2. They also own completely imaginary belief systems.
> 3. Worse, they _think_ they know what they are talking about.
>
> HINT: They don't. They're clueless.
>
> FACT:
> I own both a bimmer & a beemer and we use tools to tell us all the gory
> details about our vehicles because we want to UNDERSTAND how to debug.

I'm interested in driving cars fast, and I own a BMW. I'm not sure what
a "bimmer" or "beemer" means (or why you would use both terms).

>
> I have them all just like on Android I have debugging tools, and my point
> is that the average iPhone owner has almost no technical skills at all.
>
> In fact, Jolly Roger & Alan Baker are average iPhone owners.
> They own almost no comprehension of what it takes to debug a device.
>
> HINT: Every competent bimmer & beemer owner owns the BMW tools (many are in
> German) such as INPA, EDIABAS, NCSExpert, NCS Dummies, DIS/GT1, EasyDIS, &
> Progman for the purpose of debugging, changing settings, & programming.
>
> Back to the topic, the iPhone has always been designed for clueless people.
>
> So it makes sense Apple would never provide anything useful for debugging
> to iPhone owners (e.g., graphical Wi-Fi debugging tools) or, in this
> case, frame rate debugging tools.
>
> The iPhone owner is, as Jolly Roger & Alan Baker show, utterly clueless.
> Yet, to Apple's credit, the iPhone sells well to stupid clueless people.
>
> That's because most people are stupid.

Find one case.

JUST ONE.

Where anyone has ever used the screen refresh rate of a phone to debug
anything.

JUST ONE.

[Hank Rogers]

You're right man. I screwed up. It is *NOT NEEDED*

[nospam]

In article <tudk5h$vi37$1...@paganini.bofh.team>, Andy Burnelli

<nos...@nospam.net> wrote:

> So it makes sense Apple would never provide anything useful for debugging

so says the person who can't figure out how to compile android sample
code.

could it be that debugging is well beyond your abilities?

the reality is that mac and ios debugging tools are incredibly
comprehensive and extremely useful.

they're also of little use to end users, who aren't writing apps.

> to iPhone owners (e.g., graphical Wi-Fi debugging tools) or, in this case,
> frame rate debugging tools.

what 'frame rate debugging' do you expect to be able to do, which is
not anything you can control?

you can't even get android sample code to work, so you're not in any
position to be even thinking about optimizing animations, let alone
try.

>
> That's because most people are stupid.

with you at the very top of the list.

[nospam]

In article <CwsOL.1843329$GNG9.1...@fx18.iad>, Alan Browne

<bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:

> >> Can you explain how having the screen refresh rate helps operate a
> >> mobile phone better?
> >
> > i'm glad you asked.
> >
> > the faster the refresh rate, the faster a call can be connected.
> >
> > knowing that value prior to initiating a call can be the difference
> > between having a lively and productive conversation versus ending up
> > leaving voicemail.
>
> Ah. That explains issues I have with a client of mine. Talks so fast I
> can't keep up.

yes, that's another side effect. faster refresh rates definitely help
with the chattier types.

> So - do I ask him to reduce his screen frame rate, or do I increase mine?

maybe a mix of both.

you'd first need to call him on an android phone and obtain the optimal
value, except that value will change depending on the orientation of
the phone with respect to the cell phone tower.

it's much easier to simply say 'shut up, i'm talking now'.

[Alan Browne]

On 2023-03-09 17:01, Alan wrote:
> On 2023-03-09 13:47, Andy Burnelli wrote:

>> FACT:
>> I own both a bimmer & a beemer and we use tools to tell us all the gory
>> details about our vehicles because we want to UNDERSTAND how to debug.
>
> I'm interested in driving cars fast, and I own a BMW. I'm not sure what
> a "bimmer" or "beemer" means (or why you would use both terms).

Both mean BMW. Using both terms is a red piece of cloth waving in the
molecules of nitrogen, oxygen and other trace gases flowing by.

[Ken Hart]

On 3/9/2023 11:48 AM, sms wrote:

> There have only been a handful of Android devices that have been able to
> go down to 1Hz, and I doubt of they include the ability to view the
> refresh rate. You need the Samsung LTPO display to be able to do this,
> and it is the display in the 13.

What rate are you saying can't be displayed on all recent Android phones?
Every recent Android phone has that OS setting to show the refresh rate.
Are you on a very old Android that doesn't yet have that display setting?
--
Ken Hart
kwh...@frontier.com

[Hank Rogers]

Andy Burnelli wrote:

> To the actual _adults_ on this newsgroup (& for the permanent record),

<snip>

> The iPhone owner is, as Jolly Roger & Alan Baker show, utterly
> clueless.
> Yet, to Apple's credit, the iPhone sells well to stupid clueless
> people.
>
> That's because most people are stupid.

No, they just don't have a lot of moldy old books. So they are
denied buying anything except lowly iphones. Perhaps some day,
android phones will be available to the masses, but for now, only
the genius population can buy them.

I don't have many books and have wanted an android for a long time.
I've heard that after I get the coveted android, my shit will no
longer stink. And my IQ will shoot up to 500.

[Andy Burnelli]

Alan Browne wrote:

>> I'm interested in driving cars fast, and I own a BMW. I'm not sure what
>> a "bimmer" or "beemer" means (or why you would use both terms).
>
> Both mean BMW. Using both terms is a red piece of cloth waving in the
> molecules of nitrogen, oxygen and other trace gases flowing by.

This is interestingly another case of how clueless the iKooks truly are.

FACT:
The tools that work on a beemer are NOT the same as those for a bimmer.

For the iKooks to conflate the two is classic!
a. The iKooks are uneducated and of low IQ
b. Hence, they know nothing about any topic
c. Yet - they _think_ they know everything....

And yet... they don't even know the _simplest_ things of this topic.

*The entire belief system of the iKook is completely imaginary!*

It's like when Chris claimed to have a PhD in the life sciences, and yet,
he didn't even know what the word "vehicle" meant in immunological terms.

When people are technically competent (i.e., not iKooks) descriptive words
mean something to those who understand and who have technical competency.
--
HINT: If someone calls their bimmer a beemer, it's as instant a recognition
that they don't know anything about BMW just as if they have no teeth and
they can't speak proper grammar, it's a clue they didn't earn a PhD either.

[Alan]

In 99.9999% of use cases, it isn't. Correct.

[Hank Rogers]

Oh, let him slide. He doesn't own a BMW. Just a shitload of
paperback books from the 1950's.

You're much cooler.

[Alan]

On 2023-03-09 14:28, Andy Burnelli wrote:

> Alan Browne wrote:
>
>>> I'm interested in driving cars fast, and I own a BMW. I'm not sure
>>> what a "bimmer" or "beemer" means (or why you would use both terms).
>>
>> Both mean BMW.  Using both terms is a red piece of cloth waving in the
>> molecules of nitrogen, oxygen and other trace gases flowing by.
>
> This is interestingly another case of how clueless the iKooks truly are.
>
> FACT:
> The tools that work on a beemer are NOT the same as those for a bimmer.

Show me a picture of a "beemer" and a "bimmer".

[Hank Rogers]

nospam wrote:
> In article <tudk5h$vi37$1...@paganini.bofh.team>, Andy Burnelli
> <nos...@nospam.net> wrote:
>
>> So it makes sense Apple would never provide anything useful for debugging
>
> so says the person who can't figure out how to compile android sample
> code.
>

Lay off him, man. He's not a famous developer like you, with many
widely recognized programs written for iphones. He's just an old
guy crowing about how great he is. Probably he's just waiting
around to die.

He probably wrote some fluff stuff for androids a hundred years ago.

[Andy Burnelli]

nospam wrote:

>> So it makes sense Apple would never provide anything useful for debugging
>
> so says the person who can't figure out how to compile android sample
> code.

You think Google adds them for no reason whatsoever? The fact remains these
debugging tools exist for Android and yet they're impossible on iOS.

Steve should add this to his ever growing list of what's impossible on iOS.

> they're also of little use to end users, who aren't writing apps.

I saw Hanks challenge to you to state the apps you wrote, and I saw that
you can't because you never wrote an app in your entire life, nospam.

You would lie to your own mother, nospam, because it makes you feel better.

>> to iPhone owners (e.g., graphical Wi-Fi debugging tools) or, in this case,
>> frame rate debugging tools.
>
> what 'frame rate debugging' do you expect to be able to do, which is
> not anything you can control?

You said the same thing about graphical signal strength debugging, nospam.
<https://i.postimg.cc/Gtywwn8f/signal01.jpg> cell signal strength graph
<https://i.postimg.cc/xCbVQ2pj/signal02.jpg> cell signal strength graph
<https://i.postimg.cc/CKFhMZtS/signal03.jpg> celltower realtime location
<https://i.postimg.cc/q7JjJ77g/signal04.jpg> Wifi & cellular debugging
<https://i.postimg.cc/4xgmTTgm/wifi01.jpg> graphical radio debuggers
<https://i.postimg.cc/Hn05bQwG/wifi02.jpg> Wi-Fi & cellular utilities
<https://i.postimg.cc/fLC4zcm6/wifi04.jpg> Many signal strength apps
<https://i.postimg.cc/nrFx476v/wifi05.jpg> Wi-Fi basic settings

You would lie to your own mother, nospam, because it makes you feel better.

> you can't even get android sample code to work, so you're not in any
> position to be even thinking about optimizing animations, let alone
> try.

While you've never written an app in your entire life, nospam, I
_published_ the code for mine (which is what you're referring to).

Here's the very _first_ attempt I made, many years ago, nospam.
<https://i.postimg.cc/1tvysJY1/as01.jpg> code working on phone
<https://i.postimg.cc/nLRWdFB1/as02.jpg> code working in Genymotion
<https://i.postimg.cc/65NKJvkt/as03.jpg> Google emulator fails on AMD CPU
<https://i.postimg.cc/QCQRxf2s/as04.jpg> Google emulator always offline
<https://i.postimg.cc/qB2fL7zY/as05.jpg> Google emulator always times out
<https://i.postimg.cc/02vTHqSN/as06.jpg> Hyper-V off doesn't matter
<https://i.postimg.cc/Fsx2MnbV/as07.jpg> Hyper-V on doesn't matter
<https://i.postimg.cc/NLq9GJvg/as08.jpg> msinfo32 expected results
<https://i.postimg.cc/QdP2wcgX/as09.jpg> GApps bugs

That puny snippet is more code than you've written in your entire life.
You would lie to your own mother, nospam, because it makes you feel better.

>> That's because most people are stupid.
>
> with you at the very top of the list.

By way of stark contrast, you've _never_ written an app in your life.

You saw the tutorials I wrote to help others produce their first ten
Android apps and you can't deny that I provided that because I'm a kind
hearted person who actually cares to help myself and others.

I'm well aware, nospam, that your entire life people told you that you are
stupid, and I'm sorry for you because you have that chip on your shoulder.

But you really should stop lying about your coding capability as I've
published already ten times more code to the community than you have.]

You would lie to your own mother, nospam, because it makes you feel better.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

On Thu, 9 Mar 2023 at 22:21:47, Hank Rogers <ha...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
(my responses usually follow points raised):

What's great about Apple is they concentrate on the important things.


The things the user really NEEDS!


Like cool Yellow iPhone cases with "tandem" matching Yellow surrounds.


Apple doesn't waste their valuable efforts on frivolous debugging tools.

[Alan]

Still waiting for someone to find a single case of debugging that
involved being able to know a phone's screen refresh rate.

[Hank Rogers]

My god, do you want pictures from andy's toilet bowl?

[RJH]

On 9 Mar 2023 at 9:44:42 PM, Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:

> Yes - I pointed that out earlier today and that it's a potential reason
> for having it on an Android phone. Emphasize "potential".

You seem to know graphics performance better than me as I'm not a gamer.
I just know gamers care about displaying system parameters in real time.

Why do you think Android has that display setting in every phone out there?
--
Cheers, Rob

[nospam]

In article <tudo5l$1l3ee$1...@dont-email.me>, J. P. Gilliver (John)

<G6...@255soft.uk> wrote:

>
>
> Like cool Yellow iPhone cases with "tandem" matching Yellow surrounds.

<https://m-cdn.phonearena.com/images/phones/38016-xlarge/HTC-8X-2ad.jpg>

> Apple doesn't waste their valuable efforts on frivolous debugging tools.

you are correct that they don't waste time on frivolous tools.

what they do is provide very powerful debugging tools.

not that you would know how to use any of them, on any platform.

[nospam]

In article <tudnj1$vtcf$1...@paganini.bofh.team>, Andy Burnelli

<nos...@nospam.net> wrote:

>
> >> So it makes sense Apple would never provide anything useful for debugging
> >
> > so says the person who can't figure out how to compile android sample
> > code.
>
> You think Google adds them for no reason whatsoever? The fact remains these
> debugging tools exist for Android and yet they're impossible on iOS.

if the unnamed google debugging tools are so powerful, why is it that
you couldn't use any of them to get *sample* *code* to work?

> >> to iPhone owners (e.g., graphical Wi-Fi debugging tools) or, in this case,
> >> frame rate debugging tools.
> >
> > what 'frame rate debugging' do you expect to be able to do, which is
> > not anything you can control?
>
> You said the same thing about graphical signal strength debugging

you're deliberately not answering the question.

[Alan Browne]

One reason Android might have that metric is simply for marketing purposes.

Otherwise: Don't know and don't really care. I'm not a gamer either. I
am interested in computer performance - and if anything is to be said
for gaming it is that it does require a lot of CPU/GPU power - so those
apps are a good testing ground (and not the only one). As such, to a
gamer testing out a new GPU, the frame computing rate is of interest to
validate the expensive addition to his computer.

The same games do not display screen refresh rates though.

Because: There is no direct connection between CPU/GPU FPS rates and
screen refresh rates. (he said, again).

[Hank Rogers]

Andy Burnelli wrote:
> nospam wrote:
>
>>> So it makes sense Apple would never provide anything useful for
>>> debugging
>>
>> so says the person who can't figure out how to compile android
>> sample
>> code.
>
> You think Google adds them for no reason whatsoever? The fact
> remains these
> debugging tools exist for Android and yet they're impossible on iOS.
> Steve should add this to his ever growing list of what's impossible
> on iOS.
>
>> they're also of little use to end users, who aren't writing apps.
>
> I saw Hanks challenge to you to state the apps you wrote, and I saw
> that
> you can't because you never wrote an app in your entire life, nospam.
>

No. I did NOT challenge him. That's your obsession.

I simply asked him. He demurred, saying it was a very niche item,
and gave no details. For all I know, it could be top secret apps
written for the government. He said it was not something in general
use. Not something we commoners could ever use. I do know that he
gave no link to the app store. No way for us to try out his app.

I accepted that.

And he gave no photos of his books. Maybe that's what set you off?

Don't worry. I've seen all your books, and I doubt he can match
them. And your intelligence is far above his. You are truly the
brightest person that ever wielded a telephone.

But you need to quit pulling stuff out of your ass and slinging it
on the wall.

[Alan]

I didn't say it to be cool.

I said it to make fun of Arlen.

:-)

[Hank Rogers]

Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2023-03-09 18:03, RJH wrote:
>> On 9 Mar 2023 at 9:44:42 PM, Alan Browne
>> <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes - I pointed that out earlier today and that it's a potential
>>> reason
>>> for having it on an Android phone.  Emphasize "potential".
>>
>> You seem to know graphics performance better than me as I'm not a
>> gamer.
>> I just know gamers care about displaying system parameters in
>> real time.
>>
>> Why do you think Android has that display setting in every phone
>> out there?
>
> One reason Android might have that metric is simply for marketing
> purposes.
>

Well, I can say that android phones are marketed vigorously. Apple
never does that since stevie died. Shit most folks don't know apple
exists these days. They seem to be trying to *NOT* sell their stuff.

A lot of people just don't give a shit anymore.

[nospam]

In article <uPtOL.259391$mmyc....@fx37.iad>, Alan Browne

<bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:

> > Why do you think Android has that display setting in every phone out there?
>
> One reason Android might have that metric is simply for marketing purposes.

it's in developer settings, because it's useful to *developers*.

not surprisingly, ios developer tools can also display that information.

[nospam]

In article <e5uOL.975960$gGD7....@fx11.iad>, Hank Rogers

<ha...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> Shit most folks don't know apple
> exists these days.

didn't they go bankrupt? i thought dell bought them and returned the
money to the shareholders.

[Alan Browne]

Redundant. He does it all on his own.

[Alan Browne]

Good thing too. Otherwise that recent top 10 list would have been Apple
only instead of 8/10.

[Alan]

On 2023-03-09 15:50, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2023-03-09 18:35, Alan wrote:
>> On 2023-03-09 14:30, Hank Rogers wrote:
>
>>> Oh, let him slide. He doesn't own a BMW. Just a shitload of paperback
>>> books from the 1950's.
>>>
>>> You're much cooler.
>>
>> I didn't say it to be cool.
>>
>> I said it to make fun of Arlen.
>
>
> Redundant.  He does it all on his own.
>
>

Oh, I know.

But does that mean I can't have a little fun?

;-)

[Alan Browne]

On 2023-03-09 18:47, nospam wrote:
> In article <uPtOL.259391$mmyc....@fx37.iad>, Alan Browne
> <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>>> Why do you think Android has that display setting in every phone out there?
>>
>> One reason Android might have that metric is simply for marketing purposes.
>
> it's in developer settings, because it's useful to *developers*.

Colour me now armed with knowledge that I will forget about 50ms after now.

[Alan Browne]

A little. Too much of a good thing rots the soul. At least that's what
mom always said.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

On Thu, 9 Mar 2023 at 23:37:38, Hank Rogers <ha...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
(my responses usually follow points raised):

>> One reason Android might have that metric is simply for marketing
>> purposes.
>>
>
> Well, I can say that android phones are marketed vigorously. Apple
> never does that since stevie died. Shit most folks don't know apple
> exists these days. They seem to be trying to *NOT* sell their stuff.
>
> A lot of people just don't give a shit anymore.

Apple doesn't waste its time on debugging utilities that nobody needs and
nobody wants when what iPhone owners really need and what Apple knows they
really want is a Yellow iPhone with a matching tandem $49.99 Yellow case.

[Andy Burnelli]

nospam wrote:

>> You think Google adds them for no reason whatsoever? The fact remains these
>> debugging tools exist for Android and yet they're impossible on iOS.
>
> if the unnamed google debugging tools are so powerful, why is it that
> you couldn't use any of them to get *sample* *code* to work?

Look nospam, I get it you lied about coding as it's clear you've never
written even a single app in your entire life. You fabricated it.

But I wrote more than a dozen tutorials, every single step, every single
line of code, and I PUBLISHED them, and they're on the net for all to see.

Do I need to POINT to them just to prove what anyone can tell?

Here it is, nospam. A dozen tutorials PURPOSEFULLY HELPFULLY published:
*Report: My first "hello world" using Android Studio freeware on Windows*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/aW64zYeBtF0/m/DK2hrO7tAQAJ>

I told the truth. *You lied*.

Your whole life people have told you that you were stupid, nospam.
So you feel _desperate_ to lie to claim skills you clearly do not own.

At least I have a dozen apps published on the Android ng, with the src.
You have zero.

Each app was changed in ways that needed to be changed to work on the
hardware I used and with the emulators I used and with the phone I used.

All that is covered, in honest detail, in that thread nospam.
That thread has more coding than you've done in your entire life, nospam.

Bear in mind, I don't claim to be a developer; you do.
And yet, you've never once ever written a single line of code in your life.

While I've only published a dozen Android apps in my entire life, that's a
dozen more apps than YOU have ever published in your entire life nospam.

Please stop fabricating that you wrote apps.
It's a brazen unsubstantiated lie.

To the _adults_ on this newsgroup... I am NOT a coder but I played with
Android to the point that I published a dozen purposefully helpful noob
beginner's tutorials, starting with, you guessed it, "hello.world.apk".

What has nospam published to be purposefully helpful to the newsgroups?
HINT: Absolutely nothing.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2023-03-10, Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2023-03-09 18:47, nospam wrote:
>> In article <uPtOL.259391$mmyc....@fx37.iad>, Alan Browne
>> <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Why do you think Android has that display setting in every phone
>>>> out there?
>>>
>>> One reason Android might have that metric is simply for marketing
>>> purposes.
>>
>> it's in developer settings, because it's useful to *developers*.
>
> Colour me now armed with knowledge that I will forget about 50ms after
> now.

Which timing facility did you use to arrive at that 50ms?

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[nospam]

In article <tudvbb$156t6$1...@paganini.bofh.team>, Andy Burnelli

<nos...@nospam.net> wrote:

>
> At least I have a dozen apps published on the Android ng, with the src.

bullshit.

[Alan Browne]

On 2023-03-09 20:07, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2023-03-10, Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>> On 2023-03-09 18:47, nospam wrote:
>>> In article <uPtOL.259391$mmyc....@fx37.iad>, Alan Browne
>>> <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Why do you think Android has that display setting in every phone
>>>>> out there?
>>>>
>>>> One reason Android might have that metric is simply for marketing
>>>> purposes.
>>>
>>> it's in developer settings, because it's useful to *developers*.
>>
>> Colour me now armed with knowledge that I will forget about 50ms after
>> now.
>
> Which timing facility did you use to arrive at that 50ms?

Rough estimate of the time it takes to type the period and hit "Send".

[Jolly Roger]

On 2023-03-09, Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
>
> I'm interested in driving cars fast, and I own a BMW. I'm not sure
> what a "bimmer" or "beemer" means (or why you would use both terms).

The former is slang for a car, while the latter is slang for a bike.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2023-03-10, Andy Burnelli <nos...@nospam.net> wrote:
> nospam wrote:
>
>>> You think Google adds them for no reason whatsoever? The fact
>>> remains these debugging tools exist for Android and yet they're
>>> impossible on iOS.
>>
>> if the unnamed google debugging tools are so powerful, why is it that
>> you couldn't use any of them to get *sample* *code* to work?
>
> Look nospam, I get it you lied about coding as it's clear you've never
> written even a single app in your entire life. You fabricated it.

Projection. : )

[Jolly Roger]

On 2023-03-09, J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6...@255soft.uk> wrote:
>
> What's great about Apple is they concentrate on the important things.
> The things the user really NEEDS!
> Like cool Yellow iPhone cases with "tandem" matching Yellow surrounds.

Poking fun at colors like a little child says way more about you than
anyone else, trollboi.

[Andy Burnelli]

nospam wrote:

>> At least I have a dozen apps published on the Android ng, with the src.
>
> bullshit.

You _hate_ that everyone knows you fabricated that you are a developer.

The fact is I never said I was a developer, and, in fact, I said quite the
opposite which was that I started with "hello.world.apk" and after about a
dozen apps, I wrote a TraderJoe.apk app which is my personal shopping app.

*Report: My first "hello world" using Android Studio freeware on Windows*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/aW64zYeBtF0/m/DK2hrO7tAQAJ>

That one app is more coding than you've done in your entire life, nospam.
You lied about being a developer.

Everyone knows that you are fabricating that you're a developer.
I'm not fabricating that I'm not.

Yet here's src I published YEARS ago on that personal grocery app, nospam.
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/aW64zYeBtF0/m/_XB6MWE4BQAJ>

That one post contains more code than you've written in your entire life.
*You lied*

The reason you lied is your whole life everyone told you you're stupid.
You lied about being someone. Being a developer. An intelligent person.

Yet, you fabricated the entire story, nospam.

You think everyone doesn't know you fabricated being a developer, nospam?
It's what you uneducated iKooks do.

Just like Chris lied about having a PhD in the life sciences and yet he
didn't even realize how huge the virus genome is in terms of viral
particles, nor did he know the most basic of immunological terms.

Just like Alan Browne, Alan Baker & Jolly Roger lied about having even the
most basic of rudimentary knowledge about BMW debugging tools, nospam.

All you iKooks suffer from the same problem of low IQ and no education.
All you can do, is fabricate your endless lies.
--
The fact is something _that_ common & simple on Android, is _impossible_ on
the crippled iOS, nospam, and all your attempts to deflect are transparent.

[Andy Burnelli]

Jolly Roger wrote:

>> I'm interested in driving cars fast, and I own a BMW. I'm not sure
>> what a "bimmer" or "beemer" means (or why you would use both terms).
>
> The former is slang for a car, while the latter is slang for a bike.

Alan Baker is a moron, so I don't see his garbage unless someone like you,
Jolly Roger, quotes him, but he clearly doesn't know anything about BMW.

Just as I own both Android and iOS and you iKooks do not;l hence I know the
respective platforms are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT in almost every way....

I also own both a bimmer and a beemer, and the diagnostic tools &
interfaces there too are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

What works on a bimmer won't work in a beemer & vice versa, when it comes
to programming the various engine control modules and debugging the
transmission and recoding the transmission (ask me how I know this).

You can't program the ABS on the bimmer with the same ABS coding tools that
you use on the beemer, for example, and you MUST because every one goes bad
on specific models (just like the FSU and the CCV and the DISA goes bad).

Just as Chris would be laughed out of a meeting when he can't fathom the
immunological use of the word "vehicle" or "genome", you ignorant
uneducated iKooks would be laughed out of a meeting with BMW enthusiasts.

All of you are ignorant posers.

You don't own the adult cognitive skills to understand the difference
between a bimmer and a beemer for God's sake - and that's trivial.

No wonder you're iKooks.

[Alan]

On 2023-03-09 17:30, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> Jolly Roger wrote:
>
>>> I'm interested in driving cars fast, and I own a BMW. I'm not sure
>>> what a "bimmer" or "beemer" means (or why you would use both terms).
>>
>> The former is slang for a car, while the latter is slang for a bike.
>
> Alan Baker is a moron, so I don't see his garbage unless someone like you,
> Jolly Roger, quotes him, but he clearly doesn't know anything about BMW.

My 135i would tell a different story.

Come out to a track some time.

:-)

[Jolly Roger]

On 2023-03-10, Andy Burnelli <nos...@nospam.net> wrote:

> Jolly Roger wrote:
>
>>> I'm interested in driving cars fast, and I own a BMW. I'm not sure
>>> what a "bimmer" or "beemer" means (or why you would use both terms).
>>
>> The former is slang for a car, while the latter is slang for a bike.
>
> Alan Baker is a moron
>

> All of you are ignorant posers.
>
> You don't own the adult cognitive skills to understand the difference
> between a bimmer and a beemer for God's sake - and that's trivial.
>
> No wonder you're iKooks.

#TRIGGERED

Trollboi is hella-mad I know the difference between bimmer and beemer,
having family who have owned many models of both for decades, and owning
my own bimmers starting in 1999. : )

[Jolly Roger]

Those are fun little things. : )

[Alan]

On 2023-03-09 17:46, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2023-03-10, Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
>> On 2023-03-09 17:30, Andy Burnelli wrote:
>>> Jolly Roger wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I'm interested in driving cars fast, and I own a BMW. I'm not sure
>>>>> what a "bimmer" or "beemer" means (or why you would use both
>>>>> terms).
>>>>
>>>> The former is slang for a car, while the latter is slang for a bike.
>>>
>>> Alan Baker is a moron, so I don't see his garbage unless someone like
>>> you, Jolly Roger, quotes him, but he clearly doesn't know anything
>>> about BMW.
>>
>> My 135i would tell a different story.
>
> Those are fun little things. : )
>

Yup!

Not as much fun as this, though:

<https://martinsactionphotography.smugmug.com/2022-SCCBC-Race-5-Open-Wheel-Sunday/i-kzxmfqr/A>

😎

[Andy Burnelli]

Jolly Roger wrote:

>>> Alan Baker is a moron, so I don't see his garbage unless someone like
>>> you, Jolly Roger, quotes him, but he clearly doesn't know anything
>>> about BMW.
>>
>> My 135i would tell a different story.
>
> Those are fun little things. : )

Alan Baker is a moron. Just like Snit. And Alan Browne. And you, JR.

If Alan claims to race beemers, he's a moron for not even knowing the first
thing about his fabrications since the term came about in racing circles.

Jesus Christ.
What kind of idiot 'racer' doesn't know that?

Hence, I wish you wouldn't quote that moron Alan Baker, Jolly Roger, but
now that you have, if he doesn't even know the difference between a bimmer
and a beemer, there's zero chance of his track fabrication being true.

*All of you iKooks are easily shown to be deceitful posers.*

Especially since the genesis of the bimmer/beemer etymology is specifically
for _racing_ for God's sake. The beemer came first in racing. Then the
bimmer. Every single BMW racer on the planet is aware of that fact.

The whole reason for the two terms was because of racing for God's sake.

I'm not even going to tell you how that came about as it happened in the
1950s, but the point is no racer on the planet wouldn't know the difference
because it's sa _racing term_ from the beginning (and always was).

Every one of you iKooks are inveterate liars.

There isn't an intelligent beemer racer on the planet who doesn't know
these two terms; because he'd be laughed out off the track if he didn't.

You iKooks don't know the simplest of the most basic of what you lie about,
just as Chris tried to fabricate that he had a PhD in the sciences and yet
he didn't know the first thing about basic immunology that you learn in the
first week of class.

[Alan]

On 2023-03-09 18:00, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> Jolly Roger wrote:
>
>>>> Alan Baker is a moron, so I don't see his garbage unless someone like
>>>> you, Jolly Roger, quotes him, but he clearly doesn't know anything
>>>> about BMW.
>>>
>>> My 135i would tell a different story.
>>
>> Those are fun little things. : )
>
>
> Alan Baker is a moron.  Just like Snit. And Alan Browne. And you, JR.
>
> If Alan claims to race beemers, he's a moron for not even knowing the first
> thing about his fabrications since the term came about in racing circles.

Only I don't claim that I race my BMW.

[Andy Burnelli]

Jolly Roger wrote:

> Trollboi is hella-mad I know the difference between bimmer and beemer,
> having family who have owned many models of both for decades, and owning
> my own bimmers starting in 1999. : )

Hi Jolly Roger,

I could say kudos to you for knowing the difference, and I'm happy that you
do know the difference, but the fact remains it's one of the most basic of
the simplest terms that people who race would know from the very start.]

It's like when Chris claimed to have a PhD in the life sciences and yet he
ridiculed the use of "vehicle" which is a basic immunological term.

And it's the same with nospam, who claims to be a developer and yet he's
constantly wrong about almost everything there is about writing code.

I don't claim to be a developer, for example, and yet I've published tested
source for more apps in this one thread than nospam in his entire life.
*My first "hello world" using Android Studio*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/aW64zYeBtF0/m/DK2hrO7tAQAJ>

I shouldn't be "impressed" that you know the difference between a bimmer
and a beemer because it's basic - but - for an iKook - it's a good start.

Kudos to you for knowing.
I'm duly impressed an iKook actually knows a basic automotive racing term.

[nospam]

In article <tue45t$15naa$1...@paganini.bofh.team>, Andy Burnelli

<nos...@nospam.net> wrote:

> *My first "hello world" using Android Studio*

how long did it take for such a complicated app?
what frame rates were you able to achieve after using those 'frame rate
debugging' tools you spoke so highly of?
how much bullshit can your backhoe move?

[Andy Burnelli]

Jolly Roger wrote:

>> Look nospam, I get it you lied about coding as it's clear you've never
>> written even a single app in your entire life. You fabricated it.
>
> Projection. : )

And yet I published well meaning purposefully helpful step by step
tutorials to _help_ people to write their own apps for their own use.
*Android app coding tutorials using Android Studio freeware on Windows*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/aW64zYeBtF0/m/DK2hrO7tAQAJ>

Just as Chris lied about having a PhD, and just as Alan Baker lies about
being a racer, and just a Alan Browne lies about the walled garden, and
just as nospam lies about being a developer...

All you iKooks suffer from the same character flaw.
*Your whole life you've been told you are stupid*

Here, on Usenet, nospam can pretend to be a developer, and yet, he's not.
*He lied*

Nobody fabricated being a developer.
There's more developing in that thread than he has done in his entire life.

Prove me wrong.
I'm not afraid of facts.

That's the difference between an educated person, Jolly Roger, and you.
You're all _desperately_ afraid of the truth.

*Which is why nospam lied about being a developer*
*Which is why Alan Baker lied about being a racer*

It's what you iKooks do.
*I'm not a developer*
*I'm not a racer*

But apparently I know more about both than either of those two posers do.
And that's just sad.

You iKooks are too stupid to realize how incredibly stupid you really are.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2023-03-10, Andy Burnelli <nos...@nospam.net> wrote:

> Jolly Roger wrote:
>
>>>> Alan Baker is a moron, so I don't see his garbage unless someone
>>>> like you, Jolly Roger, quotes him, but he clearly doesn't know
>>>> anything about BMW.
>>>
>>> My 135i would tell a different story.
>>
>> Those are fun little things. : )
>
> Alan Baker is a moron. Just like Snit. And Alan Browne. And you, JR.
>

> he's a moron
>
> What kind of idiot
>
> that moron
>
> you iKooks
>
> you iKooks
>
> You iKooks

#TRIGGERED

[Jolly Roger]

On 2023-03-10, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <tue45t$15naa$1...@paganini.bofh.team>, Andy Burnelli
><nos...@nospam.net> wrote:
>
>> *My first "hello world" using Android Studio*
>
> how long did it take for such a complicated app?

Literal weeks (or was it months?).

> what frame rates were you able to achieve after using those 'frame
> rate debugging' tools you spoke so highly of?

He's never used them.

He's also never raced in a BMW as he claims.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2023-03-10, Andy Burnelli <nos...@nospam.net> wrote:

> Jolly Roger wrote:
>
>>> Look nospam, I get it you lied about coding as it's clear you've
>>> never written even a single app in your entire life. You fabricated
>>> it.
>>
>> Projection. : )
>

> And yet I published a simple hello world app it took me weeks (or was
> it months?) to get working.

Yes, we know. You have *never* published an actual Android or iOS app on
any app store. : )

[Andy Burnelli]

Jolly Roger wrote:

> #TRIGGERED

Hi Jolly Roger,
I respond to adults differently than I do to sadistic iKooks, Jolly Roger.

For example, here's my response to badgolferman (an adult) moments ago
whom you also said you triggered by your sadistically juvenile posts, JR).

If you don't know already, I have two goals on this newsgroup, while I
normally have only one goal on all the other operating system groups.

1. I want to _help_ people and to _learn_ from them all that I can, and
2. Due to the sadistic nature of iKooks, I wish to _expose_ them
for exactly what they are.

That second goal is born of my dislike of people who are purposefully
unhelpful and at the same time, deceitful liars, and, combine those
horrid personality traits with an almost total lack of intelligence.

In summary, (a) it's great you're seeking data as all data is good data,
and (b) I tried to help where I could, and (c) the iKooks, sadly, do not.

[Alan]

"Sadistic", Arlen? That's a new one.

Tell me: how has anyone been sadistic in what passes for your mind.

Helpful hint: laughing at you is not sadistic.

[Andy Burnelli]

Jolly Roger wrote:

>> how long did it take for such a complicated app?
>
> Literal weeks (or was it months?).

This post is for _adults_ (and for the permanent Usenet record),

My goal on this newsgroup is to (a) _learn_ from & _help_ others, and (b)
to expose the iKooks for exactly what they are, which is deceitful liars.

Case in point is that nospam said he was a developer; and yet, he lied.
Meanwhile, I said I was NOT a developer; which is clearly the truth.

>> what frame rates were you able to achieve after using those 'frame
>> rate debugging' tools you spoke so highly of?
>
> He's never used them.

In terms of exposing the iKooks for the sadistic liars they are, adults
will note that nospam concentrated on the "hello.world.apk", where the fact
that nospam lied about being a developer shows in _those_ comments of his.

Everyone who has _ever_ written code knows the purpose of hello world.
Yet nospam clearly has no concept of why hello.world is the first app ever.

The fact nospam is completely ignorant of what hello.world accomplishes,
is yet another clear indicator that nospam has _never_ written a line of
code in his life.

Worse, he doesn't _comprehend_ that the cite provided by me published
something like a _dozen_ absolutely complete apps, each one correspondingly
increasing in what it did (which, again, is how developers learn coding).

The clear and obvious fact that nospam didn't comprehend _any_ of that, is
an absolutely clear indication nospam has never coded anything in his life.

> He's also never raced in a BMW as he claims.

What's not surprising is that Alan Baker is who said he was a racer.
I clearly said I was NOT.

And yet, I happen to work on my own bimmers and beemers so I'm well aware
of racing terms that Alan Baker clearly was completely ignorant of.

The point was that to be completely clueless in all things they speak of is
a classic trait of the iKooks who think the iPhone NOT having debugging is,
somehow, superior to the fact Android adds debugging into every phone.
--

1. I want to _help_ people and to _learn_ from them all that I can, and

2. Due to the sadistically unhelpful yet ignorant and deceitful nature of
iKooks, I wish to _expose_ them on Usenet for exactly what they are.

[Alan]

On 2023-03-10 08:08, Andy Burnelli wrote:
>> He's also never raced in a BMW as he claims.
>
> What's not surprising is that Alan Baker is who said he was a racer.
> I clearly said I was NOT.
>
> And yet, I happen to work on my own bimmers and beemers so I'm well
> aware of racing terms that Alan Baker clearly was completely ignorant of.

The only thing of which I might have been ignorant is that someone
stated that "bimmer" and "beemer" are two slang terms for BMWs which are
used for cars and motorcycles. I can't remember which was used with
which or whether it was even mentioned.

But neither of them is a "racing term".

[RonTheGuy]

On Mar 10, 2023, Alan wrote
(in article<news:tuflb6$219sk$2...@dont-email.me>):

> But neither of them is a "racing term".

https://bimmertips.com/whats-difference-bimmer-beemer/

"A 'Beamer' or 'Beemer' is accepted as the default slang term for a BMW
motorcycle. The pronunciation is straight forward, Beam-Mer. The origin
of this slang word has its roots in motorcycle racing in the 1930's with a
British motorcycle manufacturer called BSA (Birmingham Small Arms
Company)."

https://www.bmwblog.com/2020/01/16/bimmer-beemer-beamer/

"Besides the Beamer name, racing fans and motorbike enthusiasts have also
come up with the Beemer [spelling], which was constructed in analogy with
the Beezers. Thus, the 'Beemer' [spelling] became more widely known than
'Beamer' ..."

Ron, the humblest guy in town.

[Alan]

Sorry, but that doesn't make it a racing term.

"brake marker"

"turn-in point"

"apex"

"track out"

Those are racing terms, because they're not used about normal street
driving.

"Beemer" is just what people call BMW motorcyles regardless of whether
they're race bikes or street bikes.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2023-03-10, Andy Burnelli <nos...@nospam.net> wrote:

> Jolly Roger wrote:
>
>> #TRIGGERED
>
> Hi Jolly Roger, I respond to adults differently than I do to sadistic
> iKooks, Jolly Roger.

You're a pompous asshat to everyone universally, "Andy" (who actually
posts under literal hundreds of nyms in order to troll).

And "sadistic"? Happy to oblige! Cry harder, man-child. : )

[Jolly Roger]

On 2023-03-10, Andy Burnelli <nos...@nospam.net> wrote:

> Jolly Roger wrote:
>
>>> how long did it take for such a complicated app?
>>
>> Literal weeks (or was it months?).
>

> My goal on this newsgroup is to troll.

Yes, that is evident to anyone with a couple brain cells to rub
together.

> Case in point is that nospam said he was a developer; and yet, he
> lied.

Nope, you haven't offered *any* compelling evidence of your empty claim
that he lied. You're projecting - it is *you* who lies constantly here.

> Meanwhile, I said I was NOT a developer; which is clearly the truth.

Very clearly, and yet you frequently make claims that *actual*
developers know are either wholly misguided or completely baseless and
false.

>>> what frame rates were you able to achieve after using those 'frame
>>> rate debugging' tools you spoke so highly of?
>>
>> He's never used them.
>
> In terms of exposing the iKooks for the sadistic liars they are,
> adults will note that nospam concentrated on the "hello.world.apk",
> where the fact that nospam lied about being a developer shows in
> _those_ comments of his.

So which apps have you written that required you to utilize your vaunted
frame rate debugging tools, fool? We're all waiting for the answer!

> Everyone who has _ever_ written code knows the purpose of hello world.
> Yet nospam clearly has no concept of why hello.world is the first app
> ever.

This is just your inept attempt at deflecting from the fact that you
struggled for *weeks* (or was it *months*?) to get a simple Hello World
app up and running, which makes it very likely that you likely haven't
ever used your vaunted frame rate debugging tools. : )

> The fact nospam is completely ignorant of what hello.world
> accomplishes, is yet another clear indicator that nospam has _never_
> written a line of code in his life.
>
> Worse, he doesn't _comprehend_ that the cite provided by me published
> something like a _dozen_ absolutely complete apps, each one
> correspondingly increasing in what it did (which, again, is how
> developers learn coding).
>
> The clear and obvious fact that nospam didn't comprehend _any_ of
> that, is an absolutely clear indication nospam has never coded
> anything in his life.

The lady doth protest too much, me thinks. : )

>> He's also never raced in a BMW as he claims.
>
> What's not surprising is that Alan Baker is who said he was a racer.

The Usenet record shows that Alan Baker *never* claimed he raced.

> I clearly said I was NOT.

You clearly did, which is also on record right here in this thread. But
back on the topic of software development, you are:

> completely ignorant completely clueless

Great self-own! Keep up the good work!

[Jolly Roger]

On 2023-03-10, Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:

It's unimportan, except to pompous asshats who feebly attempt to
belittle others by claiming they are supposedly contemptible for not
knowing the terms.

> But neither of them is a "racing term".

Correct - certainly not in modern usage. Having been around BMW bikes
and cars for decades, most people use these terms simply to describe
vehicles, and not in the context of racing.

[nospam]

In article <k7182q...@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger

<jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2023-03-10, Andy Burnelli <nos...@nospam.net> wrote:
> > In terms of exposing the iKooks for the sadistic liars they are,
> > adults will note that nospam concentrated on the "hello.world.apk",

i didn't mention any app in particular, liar.

> > where the fact that nospam lied about being a developer shows in
> > _those_ comments of his.
>
> So which apps have you written that required you to utilize your vaunted
> frame rate debugging tools, fool? We're all waiting for the answer!

he's clearly most proud of 'hello world'.

interestingly enough, by using these super-powerful frame rate
debugging tools, it can be determined that the letter 'h' in particular
is being refreshed at imperceptibly high rates, an issue he has yet to
resolve.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2023-03-10, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <k7182q...@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
><jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>> On 2023-03-10, Andy Burnelli <nos...@nospam.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > In terms of exposing the iKooks for the sadistic liars they are,
>> > adults will note that nospam concentrated on the "hello.world.apk",
>
> i didn't mention any app in particular, liar.

Blatant lies are all he has.

>> > where the fact that nospam lied about being a developer shows in
>> > _those_ comments of his.
>>
>> So which apps have you written that required you to utilize your
>> vaunted frame rate debugging tools, fool? We're all waiting for the
>> answer!
>
> he's clearly most proud of 'hello world'.

Clearly.

> interestingly enough, by using these super-powerful frame rate
> debugging tools, it can be determined that the letter 'h' in
> particular is being refreshed at imperceptibly high rates, an issue he
> has yet to resolve.

LOL... : D

[nospam]

In article <090320231302314478%nos...@nospam.invalid>, nospam
<nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> > > a very bored app developer could write an app that queried and
> > > displayed that value, although that won't actually be of much use for
> > > one very obvious reason (which i doubt the usual suspects will figure
> > > out).
> >
> > Since I am not a clueless Kiddie Troll - and have 40 years of programming
> > experience in multiple languages - yes the reason is obvious. The very
> > act of displaying this info, say in a tachometer-style round gauge with a
> > needle moving around showing the refresh rate - is going to affect the
> > refresh rate.
>
> good guess. but actually that's not why :)

nobody else has guessed.

the reason is simple: iphone apps are full-screen.

that means that when the user switches to another app (such as a game
with a faster rate, or an email app with a slower rate), the app that
has the rate display will be in the background and no longer visible.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 09.03.23 um 21:42 schrieb RJH:
> On 9 Mar 2023 at 8:30:37 AM, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> what possible benefit is there for an end user to know the
>> instantaneous refresh rate of the display, as it constantly changes
>> based on the currently content, as well as various other factors
>> (finger motion, power management, thermals, etc.)?
>
> What possible benefit is there for a vehicle driver to have a speedometer?
> The speed readout is constantly changing based on current driver actions.

As so often you miss the intrinsic difference.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 09.03.23 um 22:31 schrieb RJH:

> On 9 Mar 2023 at 9:07:09 PM, Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>>> The speed readout is constantly changing based on current driver actions.
>>

>> Can you explain how having the screen refresh rate helps operate a
>> mobile phone better?
>
> You may as well ask why gamers bother to display their fps & temperature.
>
> Some people are technically competent.
> Many others are not.

We know you are not.

> Kids are technically competent when it comes to gaming performance metrics.
> Most non-kids are not.
>
> You appear to be a non kid non gamer.
> So am I.

Obvious.

> Your question shows either you're not a gamer.
> Or you don't understand what stresses a system.
>
> Have you never noticed gaming PCs with the FPS displayed on the screen?
> It's constantly changing - and that's exactly why gamers HUD the FPS.
>
> Technically competent gamers want to know FPS information in real time.
> Look up MSI Afterburner for just one of many examples of related tools.
>
> They even have temperature displayed constantly as they stress graphics.
> https://www.msi.com/Landing/afterburner/graphics-cards
>
> That's likely why Google has that option in every Android phone.
> Just like General Motors put a speedometer into every car they sold.

Again: You miss the intrinsic difference between a tacho and useless
fps-indicator on a toy like an Android.